Navigating change: Best practices for shifting to a skills-based organization

Explore the key challenges and opportunities of moving to a skills-based organization and get practical strategies for successful change management.

Navigating change: Best practices for shifting to a skills-based organization

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Businesses must adapt to keep pace with changing customer needs, emerging technologies, and new working methods. One key way to stay competitive is by adopting a skills-based approach to talent management.

However, moving to a skills-based organization requires a significant shift in mindset, culture, and processes. It involves rethinking the concept of ‘the job,’ democratizing career paths and shifting from reactive to proactive talent planning.

In this webinar, Eightfold AI and The Josh Bersin Company explore the key challenges and opportunities of moving to a skills-based organization and provide practical insights and strategies for successful change management.

This webinar covers:

  • Overcoming resistance to change and common barriers to communication
  • How talent intelligence can give you a deeper understanding of the skills, strengths, and potential in your workforce today—and what’s needed for tomorrow
  • Best practices for engaging stakeholders, communicating effectively, and creating a sense of urgency and excitement

HRE Moderator 0:00
Welcome to our webinar, “Navigating change: Best practices for shifting to a skills-based organization”. I have a few housekeeping notes before we begin. If you have any questions or technical concerns, please use the q&a module on your screen. You can resize and minimize the different modules on your screen by using the options in the top right corner of each module. This event is being recorded and can be watched later on demand using the same link. Attendees will also receive the recording of today’s event. Look for that email within 24 hours post the event. We encourage you to put your questions in the q&a module throughout the event for our speaker to address. You can also use the reaction module on the menu at the bottom to relay items you may like or want to express emotion to. And now I will pass the stage to Kathy Enderes PhD, SVP research and global industry analyst at the Josh Burson Company.

Kathi Enderes 0:54
Thank you, Emily, and welcome everybody to our webinar on navigating change. And I’m your host for today Kathy Andrus, SVP research and global industry analyst at The Josh Bersin Company joining you today from Palo Alto, California. Now I’m joined today by Andrea Shiah, who is the head of talent, strategy and transformation at Eightfold. So without further ado, I’ll jump right into our agenda. And please, please put your questions in and, and put your emojis in. So I love all of these emojis when we have them come up the hearts and smiley faces and the thumbs up and all that. So do that too. And you will want to make this very interactive. So what we want to talk about today is first talk a little bit about why change management is more important than ever today, and also how it’s changing, and how change actually change management is changing in today’s business environment. Then we’ll share with you from our research, we actually did a very big research study on 10 lessons of change agility. And then I’ll hand it over to Andrea who is going to talk more operationally on how we can change, operationalize and change agility. And please put your questions in and we’ll answer them as we go along. And also in the end, so that’s our agenda for today. So let’s start with why the change case for change management, but thank you for all that thumbs up. So know the hearts I love. This is a great quote, I always like to start with that. Gordon Moore, the co-founder of Intel said, Change has never been this past and will never be this slowing ever again. And it’s true when you think about either both your personal life, your professional life, organizational change, AI, everything that’s happening in like coming out of a three year pandemic and beyond. I know, we don’t want anyone to even want to talk about that anymore. But basically, change is getting faster and faster. And that requires us to think about change, management and change agility in a different way.

On the business side, let’s talk about that for a little bit. This comes from a study from PwC, where they surveyed 1000s of CEOs around the world, and 40% of the CEOs said they don’t even believe the company will exist in 10 years. 40%. So that’s a lot of companies that a lot of companies also if you’re thinking about how long can companies pursue, it gets shorter and shorter, the average lifespan of a company is now 15 years. Verses when you think about the time we’re working in organizations, it gets longer and longer. Some people work in companies for 50 years, 60 years even. Because we live longer, and we’re healthier, and we want to contribute more to their society and to our organizations and to our careers. So that’s changing a lot of stuff. Of course, CEOs also want to focus more on transformation, not just execution, but most of them actually can’t really do that. So on the business side change and transformation is really critical. And really a business imperative to see our CEOs around the world. Now on the labor market side. And you know all of this, I’m not telling you anything new here, I think but on the labor market, side labor market around the world, and I see a lot of people are joining us from around the world, which is great. It’s very hard to hire and the labor market is getting harder and harder to basically navigate as an employer. employee retention of courses is very low. Engagement keeps declining around the world.

People are stressed out people not well. Every company is struggling with how to design hybrid work. Inflation is driving up demands for your salaries of course. And in the middle I love all of that is the call for skills for technical skills for leadership skills for frontline operational skills. And we’ve talked a lot about the skill based organization today as well. But all of this is impacting you in organizations to how you respond as an organization to all of this change in the labor market, and then on the employee side, the business side, and also the HR side, something else is going on. Every industry is transforming with another industry, every industry is converging with another industry. If you think maybe 1015 years ago, you weren’t in these clean, like neat industries, where you said, we’re a CPG company, we do CPG. But now, for example, we just published a big study on the fact that CPG companies are also becoming retail companies. Every company, of course, is becoming tech companies. Walmart is going into healthcare, for example, and, and companies are going into every company is going, lots of companies are going into banking, and media and tech companies are becoming streaming companies and all the auto companies, of course, are becoming electric vehicle companies, and what does it mean for your skills. And for your business models and for your operating models? Well, we need to think about as organizations in organizations, we need to think about attracting and retaining and inspiring new skills. But then also from an individual side, the skills that we had, and do a build maybe ovog. Korea is changing rapidly too. So changes everywhere and changes coming faster than ever before. And how do we respond to all of this? So with that, I want to go to our first poll. So here’s the first poll, we want to hear from you now, how important is changing transformation to your company? Is it critically important? Is it something that the C suite is really important, really paying attention to? Is it very important? Is HR and leadership and maybe other functions paying attention to that? Is it kind of important, it’s an HR priority? Is it somewhat important, and a priority for some parts of HR? Or is it not important at all? Oh, something else? I don’t know what that something else would be.

But basically just tell us how important change and transformation is for your organization. And if you put your boats in, I think what we’ll do then, if we’ll just move to the next slide is that when we can see hopefully, the results. So I think hopefully, everybody has put in their votes. Let’s see what we came up for. Oh, yeah, that’s great. Okay, well, this is interesting. So 44% of you say actually, it’s critically important, it’s a C suite priority. And I’m really glad to hear that. And the next highest one is 40% . It’s very important, it’s a high priority for leadership, HR and other functions. And only, let me just say that only 1% say it’s not important at all. So it’s really, really important and what we feel too, and we just came from a big conference that we had in Los Angeles at USC, where we had 450, business leaders and HR leaders join us. And changing transformation culture was one of the big themes that came up in every conversation, whether we talked about skills, when we talked about talent acquisition, or we talked about pay equity, reward systems, or learning any of these topics actually circle back to change and transformation. Because if we’re putting in,

Kathi Enderes 8:39
like transformational solutions are thinking about different ways of working different ways of providing employee solutions. Of course, we need to be good at change, and, and transformation. So let me tell you a little bit about a big study that we did a couple of years ago in the beginning of the pandemic. So what we did there is we studied 1400 1400 organizations around the globe, and their response practices to the pandemic. So that was kind of early on in the pandemic, maybe a half a year in and, of course, we didn’t know how long it was going to go. And we studied different practices. But we didn’t just study practices that were associated with pandemic responses. We didn’t just ask them about masks or like distancing, and all of that. But we asked different questions to higher level questions about reinventing how people work, redesigning performance management, thinking about bringing in contract resources problems fairly quickly, for example, paying, paying for transformation, fostering transformation and change skills. So what we realized when we finished this study on the SEL maturity model here is this was not just a maturity model for pandemic responses. It’s really a maturity model for basic what we call business resilience and business resilience, of course, isn’t just a defensive mechanism where young men like to mitigate risks that the company might come to. But at the heart of it is all about people. So this is what we came up with. And this maturity model that we saw that 18% of companies, they go through stages, basically, and you’ve built this transformation muscle up over years, Those that do are really good at and change your transformation really build this transformation muscle up over many years. So what we find out here is that 18% of companies kind of have what we call hope for the best. So they’re really, they wish that the pandemic would go away, they wish that people have basically that it was just not going to happen or not going to have such a big impact. They’re just basically close your eyes, right and close your areas and just basically, focus on cost control, reduce the risks, these might be companies and the pandemic. And also we see this now to maybe in the economic downturn that we have in the US and other places. Those are companies that very quickly do kind of mass layoffs, for example, big reductions in force, because they’re just trying to be defensive about and that’s not really a good, good way of approaching change and transformation. Level two companies, those are the companies, we call them care for the people, they made sure on the pandemic that people were protected. But also today, they focus, for example, on supporting people and their well being. They realize people are stressed out, they provide them with programs for care. And that’s really great. And by the way, 46% of organizations are at this level, so most organizations, chances are, most of you are going to be at this level, to have this kind of journey to transform and reinventing. and care for people is great, but it’s not enough. So level three companies also drive. In addition to all of that they drive agility, they drive the culture, they focus on the mission, and they educate employees and leaders how to deal with change for organizations to take it a step further. And only one in five organizations is there by the way, they take it a step further. They don’t just deal with a change. But they also use change as a kind of a springboard to reinvent all of their offering the business practices, their business models, all of that talent practices, and their approaches to their business. And they are the companies that built this transformation muscle over many years. They didn’t just respond to the pandemic, or any change really, based on like, it wasn’t just an initial response mechanism, but they’re really built this transformation of muscle up over many years.

So with that, with, with all of this, we want to hear from you in the next poll. So which level of business resilience is your company at? Are you a level one company that just wishes, the problem, whatever the problem is, whatever the business disruption is, would go away and just hope for it to basically pass pass and go away? Level two company or you’re one of those companies? That’s very nice, that’s caring for your people, but not with a lot of business focus around it. Are you a level three company that drives agility, and culture and really focuses also on the mission of the company and the vision of the company? Or a level four company? Are you transforming and reinventing and using any disruption to really rethink your business models, your people models, your people practices, your talent practices, all of that, and have this kind of transformation muscle to answer sensor response? What’s coming in the industry? And what’s coming, like your way. So I see about a third of you have put your answers in, put your answers in. Now, there are 40%. And I love seeing this go up. And in the meantime, maybe I’ll look at some of the questions that you have there. If we use AI, how can we avoid copyright infringement and use for each purpose a very specific question, or maybe respond to some of these as we as we go as we go along. But put your questions in there as well. And put also your answers in here. As we as we tally up all of these responses. I think I’ll keep moving on and see what you came up with. Okay, so a pretty sophisticated audience better than what we saw in our big study and not surprising maybe because you’re all interested in change and transformation. So that shows me that the only organizations that really paid attention to that so 9% of companies here we have in love one wishing the problem way level to about 30% care For the people 45% In drive agility and culture, that’s great and 16% in transforming reinvent. So interesting, interesting mix that we have here in this audience.

Kathi Enderes 15:15
So let’s keep going; why does it matter? Why does change in business resilience really matter? Well, this is also from a big study that we had on business resilience that I just talked about. And it really matters a lot. It’s not just a nice to have, it’s really a business imperative; it doesn’t just impact, of course, your ability to effectively respond to change, as we see here. Those organizations that were level four organizations are 4.5 times more likely to respond effectively to change, which you would probably expect that they’re much more likely to respond to change, and also to positively impact society. But they’re also 3.9 times more likely to be financially high performing. So although you’re not directly impacting, like your bottom line, your growth, your business, like you’re not selling things, or something like that. And you’re also almost four times more likely to satisfy and retain customers and 4.5 times more likely to outperform the competition when you focus on all of these practices. And I know I didn’t go very deep in these practices. I’ll come to them in a minute. But I just wanted to give you the case on why all of this matters a lot. And just to put all of this in perspective, when we when we looked at into many different practices that we study at the Josh Burson company, we do these maturity models and these studies for many different areas, including talent acquisition, learning and development, employee experience, rewards and recognition, VI, Oct design, and on and on and on. Business resilience was actually that study that their transformation muscle, that change agility muscle actually have the highest impact on financial outcomes, there’s 3.9 times more likely to be financially high performance happens to be the highest multiplier of all of them if you see all these other multipliers for all these other areas here. And what that tells me is that, although of course you need to hire great people. And of course, you need to grow great people and develop the skill sets, and design are good organizations that have a great experience around all of this. What really matters most is if your organization’s can adapt effectively to all the changes because if you have a change agile if your business resilient as an organization of your people, agile to changes, you don’t just hire people for today, but you also help them develop for tomorrow, you develop the skill sets, you’re you’re better at adjusting to AI, for example, you’re better at adjusting to new skills requirements, and the transformations that are going on in the workplace overall. So really, really important to have that kind of transformation muscle in that. Okay, so let’s keep going on this. From an HR capability perspective, it matters a lot too. So if HR and this is from our global HR capability study, where we studied over 8000 individuals and their specific capabilities in all 95 capabilities in HR, you’ll see the top 15 here on the slide as they relate to organizational growth. So you see that having change management and communication skills, as HR organization is actually the second most impactful capability overall for HR people, just right after developing leaders and managers, as it relates to organizational and financial growth, so high growth organizations are much more likely to have a lot of people that are really good in HR and beyond that are really good at managing change and communications. And how do you build these skills of course, in HR? Well, one way to build these skills is we have at the Josh Business Academy, we have a capability model and we have programs around change management and communication to really help you hone the skills level she has some of these skills, managing change and change agility course program at the Joshua’s Academy is actually one of our highest rated most most in demand cause of all So managing change really, really important to us from an organizational perspective. Okay, so now here comes to the point where we want to talk about how all of this impacts how we manage change overall and this change really is something that can be managed. We talked a lot about how all of the environment is changing so much the labor market is changing and the business environment is changing. All of these CEOs say they won’t even be in business anymore. If they don’t transform their company, we feel change is actually not something that can be managed as a project anymore. Change Management has got to stop to be kind of a sibling of program management or project management, it has to be a design discipline that puts people fit first, and builds that agility. And that capability of people to respond to change, and to anticipate change. And that puts people in the driver’s seat of a bottom up kind of human centered change process. So that’s really what we saw when we studied change management. And of course, there’s many, many different methods and approaches for change management out there, you might have your kata model, you might have you had come model or any of these other models, all of them are great. But not all of them. kind of anticipate, and deal with the nature, that change is not something that you can kind of unfreeze, then, like go through the change and rephrase, because while you’re doing that, all of these other things are changing in the environment to if you think about the last few years, every day, something changes in the environment, whether it was the pandemic and the pandemic going up or down, or whether that’s a war in Ukraine, or whether that’s inflation being really high, and then the great resignation that you had in many countries and many companies going on. And then the quiet quitting that we talked about, all of these are in your personal life, of course, dealing with inflation, or dealing with maybe layoffs of your friends, or maybe you only have lots and lots of change going on. So people can just focus on your one big thing that you want to help them change on, you really have to help them be more agile and more adaptable as, as basically they navigate all of this change. And as organizations we can do that we can actually help people be more agile, and we would identify them, well, I’ll go to this. Now. Next, we identified 10 lessons are 10 ways of actually doing this, of not seeing change management as kind of a one time thing that you just basically gear up for it, and then like, go through it, and then follow that plan, and then you’re done with it, but makes it a constant makes it an iterative can change approach. So let’s kind of what we mean when we say no more change management, but change agility. So let me go now to the 10 lessons that we have on change agility. Okay, so we have them all on one page. And I’ll talk about all of them in a little bit. And then I want to hear from you, which one is most impactful. And maybe that’s going to help us gear maybe the top one or two or three, as we have time to do this. Okay, so let me go through this in a nutshell. So the first thing that we say here is every interaction is a change interaction. And the reason why we say that is when you think about change, not as a discrete kind of activity or a project, but about something that like iterative and ongoing, every interaction that we have with the users, or with leaders in your company, see it as if change interaction, don’t save it for last, when you’re already done designing everything, whether you’re designing a system, whether you’re rolling out kind of a new approach to whatever process you might have, think about every interaction as a team interaction. Starbucks, for example, we heard a great example of how Starbucks transformed their entire recruiting process. And at the eightfold conference, so that was just like a few weeks ago, they redesigned the entire frontline hiring process. And they saw every interaction as a change interaction. So they brought hiring managers along in EAM, system selection, and then how they designed the system and they also brought in the people that are candidates for the store hiring to get their input very early on, and not just at the end. So thinking about every interaction as a change interaction, not just like basically dealing with a way of change in the end. That’s the first one.

Andrea Shiah 24:29
Kathy on the example what I loved, what you’re describing, that they’ve done is they’ve actually reinforced their culture. Right. That wants to shape it.

Kathi Enderes 24:40
Absolutely. Yeah, that’s such a good point. It actually gets me to maybe the next one and the third one, really, but I’ll talk about the second one. Second one is effective change, starting with listening to employees. And listen and not just tell employees. I think a lot of times when Think about change management, we think about telling employees something right? Or we think communication is important. But before we talk, can we listen to them? Can we get their input? Can we see what actually matters to them? And what are their perceptions of whatever change we’re going to make? And listening to employees really takes you from this like No at all to, like, learn at all, and learn where those are the concerns of your employees, and listen all the time. And of course, you all have employee service, but then also having this bi directional interaction with, with employees as well. So that’s the second one, listening to employers. And the third one actually gets me to what you just said, Andrea, starting a mission first movement, not a marketing campaign. And the reason why we framed it like this is putting the mission first. And really reinforcing the culture, for example of Starbucks, as we talked about, is critically important. Because when you tell people not just the water of the change, but also the why and tie it into what the organization is here to do, then everything changes. A great example I have here is the LEGO Group, who designed their leadership programs, with employees at the center of it. So they had actually 15 employees designed a new leadership model with their mission, as the framework, basically, they said, What are we here to do, we’re here to do like, plays really important, of course, for legal and well loved Legos. And what they did is they said, We want to energize everybody everywhere. So they can be like children and basically, everyday, play and experience their work. So tying it into the mission of the organization, not just marketing, and instead of telling people basically, here’s what you need to do. So that’s the number three. Number four is leadership. Of course, in any change process, even when bottom up, kind of employee centric change process. Leadership is critically important. And a lot of times in traditional change management, we use leaders Canopus speaking horns, so we are, here’s the talking points, can you just tell your employees, this is what you need to do. But they can have a much bigger impact if they don’t just talk but then also model the change. So really thinking about how you can use leaders and leverage leaders to model the change with humans at the center, by walking the walk, not just talking the talk. So that’s number four. Communication, I already talked a little bit about communication trends. We call that transport parent fit for purpose, communication sets the tone. So think about when you communicate, not just what you communicate, but also how you communicate which medium is most impactful for your employees. When you think about the Starbucks example, for example, when you think about your candidates in the stores, they probably don’t, they don’t read emails, right? They’re probably more text based, right? And maybe your managers, maybe they read emails, right. So think about how you use also what medium you use, and what format you use, and what you tell people how quickly they consume it. Because they have a million things, other things going on as well. So that’s the communication. The sixth one is about design, design thinking. So including employees and leaders or whoever is going to be the consumer and then the person that eventually has to pass to act on your change in the Starbucks example, of course, it was also recruiters but in any of these changes. using design thinking for any of these changes, because it builds the right solution, it’s going to be much easier to sell that solution when you design it the right way. Deutsche Telekom for example. They’ve been doing design thinking for 10 years. And they started with one pilot in the IHI area of design thinking and now to do design thinking for everything not just for tech stuff, they do it even for for example, they told us a story that they use design thinking to design executive compensation kinds of options for their their executives in Germany, this two people want a company car or do they want like something else basically. So they are really using design thinking in for those things that are not even tech solutions and design thinking is kind of this great way of empathizing with your users and really making sure that you design things right in the first place. And that goes also when you think about design thinking a big principle of design thinking is not doing one big change but doing many little iterations and and Mike what we call micro changes. Think about for example, when you want to get fitter, you want to lose weight, you don’t think about the 20 pounds you want to lose, maybe you think about the 20 miles you want to run, you think about, well , how can I break it down into smaller pieces? How can I run just like a cup with miles today? So I eventually woke up for that. And that’s the same with change. When you think about the big change, it can be so big and overwhelming. But when you break it down into big little pieces, it gets much, much easier. And so basically breaking that up and thinking about how they’re small, also behavior changes break up into big changes. And that goes with that the eighth one where we talk about nudge technology, technology. So technology, of course, for change management a lot of times is just project management solutions, right? They say, Well, we’re gonna track our communication when we track our training and attract stakeholder management, that’s all great. But think about also, how can you nudge people along and make the right thing easy to do? How can you change behaviors along the way, and give people these like, nudges to help them incorporate changes into the flow of work, and just basically behave differently. A great example here is PwC, for example, they had, they were trying to accomplish what human centered and inclusive leadership behaviors, and they used. Technology named cultivate, which basically is now owned, septics, but basically what they did is, it looked at all their behaviors of their managers, and how they communicated with their team members. And then it gave them suggestions as they were going into team meetings to, for example, say, hey, whenever you meet with this person, you don’t let them talk so much. So maybe you can, you can actually ask some more questions and help them open up. So you, you’re being more inclusive to them, a great example, to use technology in different ways for that as well. rewards and recognition, of course, are critically important for when people change their behaviors, highlighting, modeling, storytelling, telling people what good looks like, we talk a lot about the skill based organization that’s hard for people like talent, mobility, for example. But highlighting managers who, like people, maybe work on projects, have people that can, like, work on different teams. It’s a hard change to make. But it’s much easier when people see from their peers on why it matters and what good looks like. And the last one is, I already talked a little bit about that HR capabilities for change and agility and communication is really, really critical. 40% of it’s the most required our most requested actual capability in our HR capability model from the 1000s of HR people that we have and supporting here that Josh was an academy. But yet, one in five practitioners, only one in five practitioners is actually really good at that. So lots of upward opportunities on that as well. So with that, let me go to our next poll and see which of these 1010 lessons basically are 10 practices you feel are most impactful for your company, and we have them all here. I’m not going to read them all through, but maybe as you go through your life, read through and think which one is most impactful, and maybe you want to see all of them, but just pick one of them. And we want to drive a choice here. And we want to see basically what you think about change. And Ria, as you were thinking through that, and as we were talking, anyone that stood out to you must

Andrea Shiah 33:38
I mean, I just think this is invaluable. Kathy, everything that’s on this list is so critical. And to have it all in one place on one page is just invaluable. When I look at this, though, I do think the effective change, listening to employees is important because right there, they’re the stakeholders who you’re trying to really have to adopt the change. And so stepping into their shoes is really vitally critical. And if you try to create a strategy centrally and not talk to the stakeholders, your chances of success are I think are really low.

Kathi Enderes 34:20
No, it’s so true. It’s so true. And I think for example, as well, a lot of times talking about the skill based organization, for example, what it really means for employees and where, how far are they on the journey and what’s getting in the way and how do they understand what we’re talking about? Maybe it’s a big concern, or maybe it’s not a big concern for them at all. But we want to know if we don’t listen to them, we don’t ask them what the problem really is. Exactly right.

Andrea Shiah 34:48
Yeah, I could probably pick five more but these are all great.

Kathi Enderes 34:54
I love it. I love it. Yeah, and we have, we can also share maybe with the Tennis, we have actually a playbook, like a book where we have written about each of them. Then, of course, I went through them pretty quickly because I know we only have a little bit of time. We could talk about each of them, I think for an hour, right? If there could be an hour long conversation, at least, but we can share the playbook afterwards to Okay, I see about 40% of you have put your vote in to put your vote in because we want to see what’s most impactful for you. And then we can like it will also be very interesting. We’ve done this poll a few times, actually on a few occasions, and I’d be really curious which one rises to the top for you. Okay. I think we have there, we have the results, so let me see. Let me see every interaction, every effective change starts with listening to employees, I love it. So that was the one that the SAU called out. Andrea is great. 21% fostering human centered leadership to inspire a foster parent human centered leadership to inspire change and transformation. 18%. And I think these were the top two top runners, of course. And each of them got some words, which is great. I know that notch technology probably has least of them, because it’s a little bit ambiguous what that even is. But yeah, each of them had some things. So should we, we’ve talked about each of them, I think in a little bit effective change starts with listening and employees, maybe we’ll, we’ll go to sorry, let’s, let’s go maybe to the you know, we had a lot of slides, and I thought we might actually go to the next change or transformation. We talked about that, right? I just talked about why this is so important. But how little organizations actually have adopted the internal transformation behaviors, and these new like change agility behaviors, as well. Well, let’s, I think we have another poll that we wanted to come before and we will hear from you on how we can actually operationalize all of that. Now we want to get to the very high level right about change and transformation and capabilities and thinking about change management in a different way. Now, we want to hear from you what’s getting in the way in terms of change adoption in your organization, what’s the biggest obstacle and maybe, again, you want to say all of them when you look at all of these, but if you just have to pick the most important one, the most impactful one? What’s your most impactful or most important obstacle to change adoption? Or is it the biggest obstacle? There’s not a clear vision on where the changes even going like via Google employees not know what what’s the reason for it, why we’re doing this, how we’re doing this change, it’s not lack of leadership support for the changes, it’s something that we are maybe just pushing for in HR, but no leader has put their name behind it no executive has put their like stamp behind it? Or do you not have enough tools to monitor the chain? If that change is happening? Oh, it’s just too much going on at the same time. And that’s why people are just overwhelmed and overburdened? Or is there not a lot of context for the change? Do people not understand what’s surrounding the change or something else? So we see now all of your votes coming in, I see like 40% of you have submitted which is great. But put your vote in and and and we are what do you see most frequently when you talk with customers or organizations as the biggest obstacle?

Andrea Shiah 38:43
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s that I’m probably one of the things, something else that ties back to what you were saying, actually, in the prior priorities is really kind of sustaining the efforts around the change. Because it’s not something that just will happen overnight. And so if you do a set of activities, and then you walk away, the chances of that change taking hold are not really strong. So I think that’s usually kind of where I see some of the hiccups.

Kathi Enderes 39:19
Yeah, like it’s a one time shot, right? You say, Oh, thank God, we’re done with it now, but you’re never done. Like all of these big transformational things. You’re never done with them. You’re never like, I heard somebody we were talking with somebody who was talking about P equity. And they said we’re done with P equity in our organization, like how can you ever be done with it? Like, are we done with financial performance or with customer satisfaction because it’s always a work in progress? That’s exactly right. I love that. Like that’s, that’s really it’s really clear. Okay, well, let’s go to the results of that. So when we see here, okay, lack of clarity for what, why and how of the change Okay, not too much going on at the same time. Well, that was the thing that we talked about, like for the last half hour, 40 minutes is why do we need to change a deal if you’re not just change management, because change is constant, it changes on top of each other, and everything is changing all the time in your company, but then also outside of your company, and people’s personal lives and professional lives, and, and all like communities and society overall. So too much going on at the same time. And you can’t really change that, right? So you can change how you support people and become more agile. So great, great, great results here. I really want to take us away and think a little bit about how you operationalize that change in reality and how you help people on the ground, basically make it happen.

Andrea Shiah 40:49
Yeah, so I think let me see. Sorry. Yeah, here we are. So I think Kathy, I just think that that’s an invaluable set of information you just put together and all I’m going to be doing is repeating it, but from the standpoint of an actual implementation, right? And so really talking about, you know, how do you successfully manage change and engagement, if you’re rolling out new AI or technology, right? And all kinds of the kind of factors and important things that Kathy just shared kind of all feeds into this, right? So for successful change, you know, when you think about your stakeholders, you need to really have the inspiration, right. And so that was your example, just now around setting the context and explaining the vision is really around, like, why is this really important and inspiring, your stakeholders or your employees to really understand that and really buy into it is, I think, really important, then it’s really around the set of actions that they need to take to really support that or kind of, kind of drive the objectives around the change. And so that’s really kind of the how, like, Okay, why should I do this? And how do I do this, and those are the two things that come together to get at the change. And then, when you dive into the details of this, there’s really four elements of activities. And again, this ties back to a lot of what you talked about Kathy, the readiness, you know, really understanding what’s the impact of the stakeholders? And is this a big change or is it a little change? What are the pain points behind it? And how are you going to make sure that things are in good shape in terms of communicating and enabling this change? Then there’s the communication, right? That was one of the top right priorities, and just really establishing clear communications, making sure all the impacted stakeholders understand what’s happening, and communicating the context and setting the inspirations and also explaining the house. And then the training really starts to tackle a lot of the questions, right, making sure it’s very simple, very clear. And what new actions do I need to take? So I think all of us can identify anytime there’s a new employee tool rolled out, you know, all of us has figured out, okay, here are the steps I take to get something done, whether it’s if I want to apply for a job internally, or if I want to, you know, submit my expenses. I know exactly what steps to do. But now if you change the platform, it’s like, Oh, no. Now what do I do? So you have to have very clear trading instructions to help people understand how to adopt. And then really importantly, as you spoke about, Kathy, it’s just the continuity of really kind of monitoring, like, how is this going what is happening with adoption, because in my experience of implementation of new technology, it happens in an uneven level, the adoption, and so understanding what’s happening and understanding where you need to place more effort, I think is really important to be successful. So these are kind of the four elements of change. On the next page, what I’d highlight is, you know, you’re gonna go through different stages of change. And the point is that these will play a different role. In each. Each of the stages is very fact on the next page. What you can see is some of the specific activities so you can see readiness, you know, as you’re preparing for the change is vitally important. Understanding the stakeholders and starting to draft like, how is your communication going to connect with the stakeholder experience? Then when you kind of roll it out, you’re rolling out your communication, you’re rolling out your training, and you’re starting to monitor what’s happening. And then as we can, as we’ve said, and Kathy, as you’ve said, kind of continuing the activities post the rollout is important. So continue the communication for me as an example, one of the things you would do is just look at where the adoption is happening really quickly, and how are individuals using the tool? And why is it resonating for them, you can take that back into your communication, and feature that right to all the other employees to kind of get them excited, understand more, or set the expectation that this is now kind of how things are going to work. The training, understanding where you’ve got opportunity areas still and really supporting the additional training, and then monitoring, I think you should always be monitoring what is the usage is the nature of the usage of the new tool, aligned with your objectives. So you can see how all these pieces play an important role as you get through implementation. And it’s not just preparing for launch and then walking away, because that will not be successful. As a matter of fact, I feel like I think that is one of the biggest Watch out as we worked with customers is not sustaining and monitoring that change is really, really vital. Okay, and then I think the one thing I wanted to highlight, this is something that’s really important to eight fold. And as you’re considering vendors, you know, that you’re talking to for new technology or AI, what’s really important that you’ve got a commitment around, how are your stakeholders? What kind of support will your stakeholders who are going to be using the tool have to make sure they’re comfortable, they understand exactly how they should be using the tool. I think that’s one thing April’s very much committed to that’s really important. And just highlighting that is really important. Now, the rest of it with regards to the culture, the vision, the aspiration, I think the organization needs to shape that. I mean, I think the vendors are, I know Eightfold does a lot in terms of advising, because we have so much experience working with over 100 of our customers, that that’s really important to bring to the table. But from the standpoint of product utilization, I just want to dive into that for a couple minutes really quickly, because I think this is really important. You know, the key areas of the kind of tools that you should be looking for are obviously training materials, user quick reference guides, very simply step 12345. Here’s how you do this, kind of kind of the adoption dashboards, and I’ll share some of those with you. And then for us is also connecting with our community of customers, right, one of the best ways for you to learn on how things are going or how to address issues is to connect with other individuals that are in the same place in the same boat or might have more experience. So these are kind of the three categories of things that we really focus on. On dashboards, right? Here’s an example. You know, as I said, the adoption is going to be really bumpy. And really understanding what’s happening, where the gaps are, in terms of usage are going to be important for you to get everything to the right place you want it to be. So for us, for example, in talent acquisition with recruiters, it’s just really understanding, like, what is the use of the tool? What is the rate of adoption that’s happening? And what is, for us what is really important is calibration, like Are people really leveraging the intelligence that we’re providing them, you know, in their recruiting activities? And so that’s something that we also monitor closely.

Kathi Enderes 48:27
What I love about this one is that Andrea just wanted to make one comment about that, that dashboards and the calibration dashboards. I think this is another way of listening to employees, right? Because you listen to how they act, not just what they say. Because when you identify, for example, there’s a group of recruiters, maybe they are not using the tool effectively or not, not enough. What’s behind that? So then you can really troubleshoot and say, well, this group of people, maybe they don’t understand how to use it, maybe they don’t really realize it’s even there. Right. So it’s another way, listening doesn’t just have to be a survey. This is listening to the actions that people take, which ties back to what we all voted for as one of the most important things and it changes listening to people.

Andrea Shiah 49:11
Yeah, absolutely. Perfect. For me, having implemented this, I was able to identify individuals who figured out how to use the tool beyond what I was even thinking about. Right, right. And so all of a sudden understanding like, Hey, what are you doing? And how are you doing that? And bringing that back to the rest of the users is quite powerful?

Kathi Enderes 49:33
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I love it right. And then you could use them as the super users and kind of training and communicating to others and helping you with modeling and rewarding and recognizing the right behaviors, which we also talked about. So this all ties back together.

Andrea Shiah 49:49
Yeah, yeah. And I liked that point, too, of having somebody as an appear set, become a resource for you is really, really a great thing. So being able to create that and allow added that, believe it or not, can come from your dashboard. If you’re talking about a large organization and really understanding like, What’s this doing, because they’re doing a lot here. And then just as an example, for us on an even mobility, you know, just understanding our employees completing their profiles, or setting up goals for their career using the intelligence, are they looking at jobs? are they applying to jobs now that they have the intelligence to do that? And then just continuing with that, just making sure they’re, are they signing up for learning? Are they planning their careers? Are they working with other individuals? These are all things that can be monitored and tell you what is the extent of the use of your tool. And I think that’s important. It’s not just one metric on like, if somebody’s using it, it’s how they are using it that will continue to inform, you know, where your opportunities are, and where else you can dial up. And then, as I said, the training becomes important, obviously, direct training, training the trainers, and then the availability of these training tools for the different stakeholders involved in using the tool is important. But I say it is also important as a quick reference guide, right? So, you know, having a very simple way of understanding step one, two, and three, on how to do this is so helpful and so easy, right? So just having this available, I think is really important to like, you know, so if you’re used to submitting your expenses a certain way, and now there’s a new platform a whole different way, if someone gave you here’s the five steps to take, you will be adopting that and understanding how to use that tool pretty readily. So I think these are also very important tools to have. And then as I said, kind of the community, right, I think that’s really important, connecting people and people have a lot of appetite, to connect with other leaders or other stakeholders. So this is something we think is really important to have in place for people to really understand and deal with their challenges or what’s going really well for them to share with others. So I think that’s all I had, I think we have just a little bit of time, maybe five minutes to see if there’s any questions. Let’s see, we have a couple of questions here about receiving the slides. And I believe, I believe that’s going to be distributed, is that right?

Kathi Enderes 52:32
People will get the recording, I think afterwards. Okay. Yeah. Great. Other questions? We’d love more questions on anything that we said or comments, or anything that resonated or didn’t resonate, it sounds like people are interested in in both the, like the overarching change in agility kind of approach, but then also the, like, practical and operational elements of change agility, but anything, any questions, any additional questions on how, how to go about this? A comment or leave a look at the comments, too.

Andrea Shiah 53:12
I’m reading there’s one question here. Well, one hello to Alex, who sends his greetings from Chennai. That’s nice, far away, and very early hours. Thanks for joining. We’ve got another question here. But I’m not sure I understand the question, Kathy, it’s, if we use a How can we avoid copyright? In use for HR purposes?

Kathi Enderes 53:38
Yes, I looked at that, too. I’m not exactly sure what that means. How can we avoid it? Can you share more about nudge technology? This one, I can definitely share more about nudge technologies or nudge technology. Those are technologies that give people basically based on their behaviors, nudges and nudges could be emails, or it could be insights on how to behave differently. So for example, when we’re talking also angry about, like using a new recruiting system, for example, right? It could be used as, as Andrea just showed, giving people these nudges, to say, hey, here’s new candidates. And here’s a way basically to look at the candidates in like using the AI to sort them or like using those kinds of insights that we get from the new system that you didn’t have before. And nudging all it means is basically not just training people but telling them in the moment. Here’s what you should do. So encouraging people to use this, to use the new technology or a new use a new process or new behavior in a different way. Yeah, the example I gave about nudge tickle Knology was one that basically looks well. Another nudge technology that we have is, if you’re not Microsoft Lima, if you use Microsoft viva, we use it. And the weaver gives you, for example it gives you a notice to maybe take a break or take some focus time, all of these kinds of nudges that encourage you to do different behaviors. Andrea, any other thoughts on nudge technology?

Andrea Shiah 55:19
No. I mean, I think it’s, it’s, it’s great technology, right? Because as you said, it’s at the right point in time, there’s kind of a prompt to take the right action. I see a question here that I think is a great question about any specific industries that are adopting the APR technology at a higher rate than others. And Kathy, I know you can participate in this too, because we partner a lot on analytics and insights across industries. But it’s kind of amazing to me that the applicability of talent, intelligence, skills, intelligence, across all kinds of talent needs is growing for every industry, right? And I think, as an example, I mean, we have customers across every industry, financial services, pharmaceuticals, hospital and health care, manufacturing, semiconductor, I mean, just the range is incredible. Telecom. I mean, it’s pretty much every industry. And I think what’s driving this is that there’s competition for skills that’s really heavy across every industry. You know, obviously, digital skills impact many industries. But even outside of that, you know, that each industry has their own, you know, transformation that’s happening about unique skill needs that they have. So, Kathy, I think you shed a lot of insights to analyze this, but biotech, right for pharmaceuticals, 5g for telecom, renewable energy, for energy, there’s just so much transformation happening across every industry. It’s a really interesting time to be in talent right now. And so as a result of that pressure, we’re seeing adoption happening across pretty much every industry. Anything to add to that, Kathy?

Kathi Enderes 57:06
No, I totally agree with that, Andrea. I mean, I was surprised because when we looked at which industries are using skills disruptions, but then also how I use it, how are they using technology, including eight fold in a new way? You know, we think healthcare would be one that’s kind of hanging behind. But we’ve seen, for example, healthcare when we studied this, to be actually at the forefront of some of these disruptions, because they have to be right, because they are short people so much. They’re short clinical people so much. And I think that’s why it applies to every industry, because every industry, I don’t think there’s any industry that’s not struggling to attract, retain, rescale and deploy people right now, right? I mean, it’s across the board. So they’re all really applicable to all industries and skills, disruptions are there for every industry as well.

Andrea Shiah 57:57
One last question, Kathy, I think this is a great one. Which is how, what is the secret recipe of change?

Kathi Enderes 58:09
Well, it’s so interesting. I wish there was one secret recipe. I’d love to hear your perspective on Andrea. But I think for me, I want to boil all these 10 lessons and change agility work and the whole playbook. And I’ll put the link actually in the chat for everybody to get. It’s free for everybody. If I could summarize, all of that is changing all about people, right? It’s putting people first really thinking about who, who you’re changing, who you’re changing for and why you’re changing. And why is this a good thing and really starting with employees who need to eventually execute on that change? I think putting them first I think that’s like, in a nutshell, the big. Maybe it’s not the secret, but I think the one one word thing that I’d say

Andrea Shiah 59:02
100% I agree with you 100%. Again, just putting yourself in the shoes of the individuals, what they’re trying to do in their day-to-day work and how this impacts them will lead you to success.

Kathi Enderes 59:19
Well, this was a fantastic conversation. I loved all the questions. There were now a lot of questions. We didn’t get to all of them. But thank you very much.

HRE Moderator 59:31
Thank you for attending today’s webinar, you may disconnect and have a lovely rest of your day. Thank you.

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