Rebecca Warren 00:01
All right, hey, everyone, super excited to be here. Kathi, great to be on another webinar with you. We always have so much fun. Are we ready to do this?
Kathi Enderes 00:11
I’m ready to do it. So looking forward to this, Rebecca.
Rebecca Warren 00:14
You’ve already had the overview about what we’re going to talk about, right? What the CHL role is and isn’t where it’s going, what’s happening so Kathi and I are going to spend some time talking about what that shift looks like, talking about systemic HR, and different, different paths to the CHRO space. Why? Having experience outside of HR might be your secret weapon, and how AI and talent intelligence can help you personalize your own development, as well as closing skill gaps, finding mentors and giving you a roadmap forward. So we have a ton to cover. Cath. Are we ready to jump in? Absolutely. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Okay. So we’re gonna first kick off what’s happening in the world. Kathi, it’s wild out there. What in the world is happening in this space today? Let’s go to that next slide and talk about our economic and workforce environment, which I think is slapping us all a little bit in the face right now, complex and really important, right?
Rebecca Warren 05:51
Like all of these things are happening, we can’t drop the ball on any of them. We can’t boil the ocean, but you know, how do we think about what this means for organizations like I am right now at a conference with TA and TM leaders, so thanks for my fancy background hotel here, and we’ve been talking about that. What does that mean for alignment, for transparency, for innovation, right? We spent some time talking yesterday about how innovation is critical, but yet, with all of these things happening, it’s really hard to know even how to start, where to do that. So like when we’re thinking about all of these things, what does that mean for organizations and for HR, when we’ve got all of these priorities that maybe seem like they’re competing with each other and perhaps not aligned?
Rebecca Warren 09:10
Exactly. Well, when you tie every hire to an organizational goal, it changes the game, right? Not just like you said, what a hiring manager wants, but what is going to drive the business forward, and it also gives them that new hire a purpose, like, Hey, I have, I have a connection to this company being successful, as opposed to, I’m hired to work for Bill or Sally?
Kathi Enderes 09:33
Absolutely. You said it so well, because I think a lot of times, when we hiring people. We’re thinking about activities. But what’s the ultimate goal that this person has to accomplish? Right? Why are they here? What are the outcomes? So it changes your kind of job descriptions, too, and you have requisitions from, well, the activity based things. It also goes to this concept of skill based hiring, of course, and skill based overall talent management, learning and all of that, because when you’re tired, less to activities and more to actual goals, what are the skills and capabilities you need to actually accomplish those so all of this factors into kind of this item number two that we have here, creating this kind of dynamic talent model for talent density, where we move People around as well and and make sure that people have kind of opportunities for growth within the company, and not just hiring from the outside all the time. So this, this is a really important concept that changes are actually the game on how you traditionally maybe do HR. Third one has to do with leadership models, culture, employment brand. So thinking about, what do you need, actually, from a leadership perspective, from a kind of learning and growth mindset, culture in order to adopt AI for example, we’re just talking with a very large manufacturing company that’s one of our clients, and they told us they have aI training, mandatory AI training for the entire workforce. They like, basically break it out between frontline manufacturing employees, professionals and leaders. And they did get different AI training, because the frontline employees, for example, get lots of the more their robotics and all of that. Professionals have to learn much more about generative AI and AI agents and leaders have to learn much more about how they inspire their teams, actually, to experiment and to try and to kind of grow with with AI. But then they also have, from a culture perspective, they have mandatory training on growth mindset and experimentation and kind of those kind of more cultural environments, because in the AI world, of course, we don’t know where it’s going to go. We don’t know how it’s going to happen. So all of this has to do with kind of a different set of leader, a different culture, and creating this kind of really engaging employment brand. So that’s number three. Number four has to do, and we’ll talk more about that. The shift to systemic, what we call systemic HR, and systemic HR is a different mindset of HR that moves HR from this kind of efficient service delivery function to a problem solving, consulting kind of organization that helps the business solve these biggest business problems, like the problems we just saw and on the first, first slide that we talked about, and the last one has to do With the tech stack. So HR people right now and CHROs can’t just not be conversant in technology, in HR technology, and understanding what AI agents do, what AI assistants can do for them, how it changes their HR technology stack. Didn’t used to be like that. You could maybe outsource this to your IT department, but now it’s so ingrained and so part and parcel of the entire HR organization that CHROs have to be and HR leaders have to be conversant in technology and understand how it works on a high level. So all of this is going on, and it really changes the requirements of CHROs, of HR leaders.
Rebecca Warren 13:02
Yeah. And when I think about everything you said, you are moving from the front of the process to the bigger picture, right? Like it’s not necessarily about hiring for tasks. It’s not even about hiring based on someone’s resume. It’s hiring on the potential of work that needs to get done, right? If you think about it, hey, here’s the end goal, and you figure out how to get there, right, we all may approach things differently. So it’s not about being very specific about the work. It’s about what work needs to get done. And let’s go do that. And even if we do it in different ways, sometimes that makes us, I think, better if we approach things differently. Instead of following a linear roadmap, like it’s wild, it’s crazy, we’re just we need to get this done, and if we do the same things we’ve always done, we’re going to get the same outcomes we’ve always gotten right, and that’s not going to get us to where we need to go.
Kathi Enderes 13:59
No, absolutely, absolutely, and so to sum it all up, what we actually see happening here is that organizations have to move to what we call systemic HR. And systemic HR is not just a new operating model, although the operating model that we’ve had in HR for 30 years needs redesign as well. Because if you think what 30 years ago, in the mid 90s, or we didn’t even have the internet, right? We certainly didn’t have AI. We didn’t even have mobile phones. So a lot has changed in our lives that I
don’t even know how to think about that, how to not have all the things we have today.
Rebecca Warren 14:32
It wasn’t that long ago when we were operating on fax machines and snail mail, that’s right.
Kathi Enderes 14:42
No, exactly. And phones, of course, right. And so if that’s how old the HR operating model is, it needs to be redesigned. It needs to be reimagined. So we need to think about a different HR operating system. We call it an operating system, like a phone operating system, where you need different skills and capabilities of the HR team, the organizational structure of HR change the service delivery model changes. You have much more cross functional teams, much less silos, and also much less silos between HR and the business as well. So rotating people in and out of the business really, really important as well rotating people within HR across different business units, and I will tell you the most, the most high performing CHROs, always think about that. How can they place people from the business into their HR organizations? And how can they place people from HR into into the business? So for example, Lauren Schuster, he’s the CHRO off of the LEGO Group. He comes from a marketing background, so he is not a career HR person, and I know we’re going to talk about that, but he always rotates people, for example. And he told us that when we talked with him. He rotates people from recruiting into sales, for example, from the IT organization into people analytics. So that kind of cross pollination between the business and HR critically important as well. So that’s that’s really going on here, and the profession itself is extremely complex and extremely high value. So here you see, and I’m obviously not going to go through all of this, our 96 capabilities in 20 capability areas of our HR capability model that we have at the Josh Burson company. And we have even like, and we’ll talk about this a little bit later. We have a capability assessment, where every HR professional can assess yourself against that, so you can assess yourself against that, and then you can see where you want to grow. So you could say, maybe I’m not that strong in things like workforce planning, for example, and maybe want to grow there, because that’s going to be a really important consideration. Or maybe I want to be stronger in HR tech and service delivery in those kind of areas. So it really helps you understand your kind of overall, what we call full stack HR capabilities that you can have. And from an HR tech stack, and I talked a little bit about that, we’re not going to dive too deep in that, but things are going to change a lot too when you’re thinking about AI agents, the whole way that our our employees and our contractors and our applicants, our candidates, interface with HR technology will change a lot with these agents. So right now, you have most of the interface with HR technology if you’re, for example, applying for a job, usually you have to go to a website like, it’s still, for the most clutch, very similar. It’s clunky, and it’s not kind of how you have your consumer experience when you go to buy something, for example, a very different experience. And I think these agents will really change that a lot. So people will interface much more with these agents that just ask them, What do you want to do and how do how can I help you? And then you just basically talk with this agent, even voice controlled or typing in, and it helps you do what you have to do, so you don’t have to work through these still clunky and old school interfaces as well. And in the middle of all of this is, of course, talent intelligence and eight fold has like this great talent intelligence platform where you get insights on people’s skills, their capabilities, but they’re also on the labor market and on your competitors, and like inside and outside data that you can use within HR to create a better candidate experience, like better employee experience, but they’re also get better hires, get more performance for your people, improve their overall kind of work life, and redesign those jobs as well. So all of this is happening in in in the world of HR as well. So I think, Rebecca, I do want to go to our first poll.
Rebecca Warren 18:56
We’re ready for a poll. Tony, can you help us out here. So we are talking about how prepared is your organization to shift from traditional HR to our more systemic, strategic HR model? We’ve got a couple of options for you, so feel free to pick the one that is closest to you. There are no right or wrong answers. We want to hear what’s actually happening in your org today. So are you leading the way, all systemic and strategic? Are you on the path? Good progress? More to do. There’s always more to do, just starting early stages of the transition, mostly traditional, little progress so far. Or we think we want to make the shift, but we don’t even know where to start, you know, and that was a lot of the conversations hearing at this conference that I’m at a concerto conference around, what does that look like? And a lot of folks, I will say, like, you know, at eight fold, maybe we get a little bit comfortable with AI. We’re like, of course, AI is here. It’s great. We love it. Here’s how we use it. But not everybody is on that same page, whether you’re an employee or whether you’re a leader, and there’s a lot of questions. You know, we talk about having to be agile, and you can’t have a five-year plan because we have no idea what’s going to happen, right? And so yeah, every day, and there’s a lot of folks who have a lot of questions about that. And so that continuation of talking about it, making sure folks understand what it is, what it isn’t. And even those baby steps, right? You can have a really big plan. Taking some of those little steps sometimes is the way to start. So, okay, do we think we’ve had enough time to let folks weigh in? Kathi, anything you want to ask?
Kathi Enderes 20:49
I think so. No, I think so. No, I think we’re ready. I think let’s see where everybody what do we have?
Rebecca Warren 20:54
Oh, I love this crowd. Kathi, they are rock. Oh, wait, it’s flipped.
Kathi Enderes 21:05
It’s just basically sorted by, I think, frequency. So, yeah, starting early stages of the transition, mostly traditional, little progress. Okay, okay, well, and I will tell you. And I think we can, we can go to the to the next slide. There can Okay, there we go. Most organizations are also not there. So as you look at at our maturity model, and we have had over 1000 organizations actually participate in this, this big study that we had done. So this is a very broad data set. Most of them are also in this kind of early-stage transit, which we call transactional compliance. Only 11% are these, like, problem-oriented, operating like a consulting firm, database, insights, focused HR organization, because it’s challenging, right? Because it’s challenging to kind of build up that capability as well. So let me, let me just talk about it, from trying to, you know, move the Titanic or an iceberg, right?
Rebecca Warren 22:05
Like it’s nothing that happens quickly, and it takes time and energy and effort, and sometimes it’s a slog, let’s be honest, right? But it needs that exactly.
Kathi Enderes 22:20
Yeah, it absolutely needs to happen, and it impacts the CHRO role as well. So the CHRO role, let’s talk about this, most senior HR leader. Many organizations call it the Chief People Officer or Chief HR Officer. Some call it the Chief Culture and Experience Officer, whatever you call it, basically, this role is changing a lot too. So this comes from a study that actually we’re in the middle of, but we’ve also studied kind of the profiles of 20,000 ch rows around the world, and then correlated the profiles against our systemic HR model to see what the hyperbolic CHROs are doing. Many of these CHROs that actually we we interviewed and we queried and we surveyed ourselves as well. This is how they describe the role of the CHRO. So you see multifaceted, challenging as kind of the biggest word, strategic, transformational, partnering, leader, architect, complicated. So you see a lot of these kind of words that indicate how it has evolved. Really. I love this quote from one of the CHROs that we interviewed, and actually, we have a great podcast with him, York dirt. He feels that the CHRO role has evolved from this really operational support function, from a role, enforceable role, to a strategic leadership role, and I think that’s what we’re seeing in this theater role, and also in the systemic HR study as well. So really, a big shift of focus of what the theater role looks like. And I love, and I’m looking at the word cloud here, I love also seeing a courageous architect, right, really developing it from the ground up, and having to be maybe a little more forceful than maybe HR has been in the past, right?
Rebecca Warren 23:54
It could be that it’s much less of a rule enforcer or compliance or event planning, and sometimes sticking your, you know, your neck out, saying, Hey, pay attention. Hello, we’re here, right? So yeah, which I think happens a lot in this seat, to say, hey, you know this, this is important.
Kathi Enderes 24:29
No, absolutely. I mean, we’ve talked with a CHRO who has been in many different kinds of tech companies here in the Silicon Valley where I live, and she said she always has to put basically her neck out in things that she cares about. So she talked about the return to the office. For example, I know many of you are in the middle of all of this, and she has said I had to tell my CEO and my leadership team, who all said we have to come back to the office. And I brought the data, I brought the insights. I told them, basically, we’ll lose people. And she said I really had to stand up for what I knew was right. And luckily, they listened. But sometimes people might not listen. And so how do you stand up for what you know is right for the business and your people as well? So many of these questions come up all the time. I know return to office is just one of them that impacts many of the CHROs right now so it’s a really big consideration. Meanwhile, this study from Stanford suggests that the CHRO is becoming more highly elevated. So they saw that over the last 15 years or so, or actually more than that last 30 years, the CHRO role has actually been evolving and being elevated from kind of they looked at the top five highly, most highly paid executives on the C-Suite of Fortune 500 companies, or S&P Global companies, maybe. And they saw that it used to be only less than 1%, so half a percentage point in 1992, and then now. In 2022 when they completed the study, it was 13% so like more and more the CHRO gets to be the like on par in terms of pay, with the CFO, with the CIO, with the Chief Marketing Officer, maybe so being in the top paid ranks really shows also how much they’re valued by the CEO as well. And we see this also in many of the CHROs that we talk with, who also expand their portfolio. So we see CHROs, for example, the CHRO of Moderna, Tracy Franklin, who now also has digital, all of digital under her portfolio, all of the digital tech. Because she says, for us, it’s not just the age, like the human people, but it’s basically the technology resources as well. So she’s an AI agency. AI workers are basically also managed under her portfolio, which is a really big theme I mentioned Lauren Schuster, for example. He has also Marketing and Communications, in addition to HR and Tanush, who is the CHRO of Standard Chartered Bank, for instance, she also has business strategy under her portfolio. So, and there’s many examples of that, so many of these, like CHROs, have a broader, more expansive role now that include HR, but include other areas, and it really shows the trust that the CEOs have in these CHROs here as well.
Rebecca Warren 27:40
So let me ask you a question on this. Love that the percentage went from point 5% to 13% but how should we feel about 13% right? Should we feel good about that? I mean, I’m not sure.
Kathi Enderes 27:56
Well, I think the progress is good, right? And you have to, I mean, you have to think about that, oftentimes or sometimes the most, the most senior HR person, sometimes isn’t even C-Suite person. And we actually see this in our survey, in our study too, that sometimes, although they might be called the chief people officer, but when you ask them, “Are you actually on the executive committee? Are you actually participating in the same way as the CFO?” Sometimes the answer is no, right? So, it didn’t used to be like that. It used to be, actually, most of the time. It used to be that HR was not at the table. We always talk about the seat at the table and at the highest table, I think HR was not a seat. Didn’t have the seat there, right? They were told afterwards what the CFO, the CIO, and the CEO decided, and maybe the presidents or the CEO agreed, and then they had to go implement it. So I think it’s a journey, obviously. I think it’s good news that it has increased. Is it enough? Of course, not, right, but it’s going to take time. It’s going to take more time, and I think the way to get there is to continue showing the value to the business, not just executing on the kind of bread-and-butter thing. Of course, you have to do that too. I think if you don’t do that, you don’t really have a more strategic play on that either. So if payroll gets messed up, I think nobody’s going to ask you then to solve their biggest business problems. If you’re saying, well, people don’t even get paid on time, right? So you have your lawsuit, an employment lawsuit, or something like that. You have that frequently if you break in the law. Of course, you need to still do that, but you need to move upwards that curve as well. And that’s what we talked about in systemic HR.
Rebecca Warren 29:40
That makes sense and that makes sense, figure out your table stakes, and then continue to grow.
Kathi Enderes 29:42
And I love this quote here before we move on to the next slide, where it says, “HR should not just be close to the business. HR is the business.” Like those four words are key to everything. HR is the business, right? And I think it’s, it’s also a mindset shift for us in HR that we have to think about not just, how do we support the business? How are we the business? How can we make business decisions? How can we weigh in on product decisions, on like, location decisions, on kind of customer decisions, client decisions, market decisions, operating model decisions. Rather than just saying, Oh, I’ll do the recruiting around it, I’ll do the training around it. How do we become more the business? I think that’s a really important mindset shift, and that really goes with how the CHRO role has changed as well. So it used to be that the HR that’s here, their CHRO was fleet of the HR function. So they were talking about compliance. They were managing the HR function. They were taking in, like, business decisions and then reacting on it, supporting their business basically, and they were mostly process-oriented, respected for just their HR expertise, because that’s kind of what they were known for. And now with systemic HR, the CHRO really becomes this kind of C suite executive that we talked about, and not just by title, but really by function as well, where they’re thinking about the business outcomes overall, where they’re weighing in on business strategy, business consulting, where they also, and that’s a really important consideration, where they’re being the C suite executive. But then they also have to coach the C-Suite as well. So they have to be player and coach, which nobody else on the C suite has to do. If you think about it, the CFO doesn’t have to coach anybody, their boss, the CEO, right? But the CHRO, at the same time as leading there, they also have to coach everybody. They have to tell the CIO, hey, for example, you have some issues in how you are working with your team, or how you’re working with the CEO, that this is not working in terms of the collaboration, whatever it is, right? So they have to continuously coach them as well. So this player-coach is a really complicated thing that the CHRO has to do as well, but they have a lot more on the relationships that they have with the C suite as well, not just on the relationships that they have down in their own organization. But how do they continue to be seen and perform as a C-Suite executive as well?
Rebecca Warren 32:26
It is a lot, but I love the shift, right? And I think the words matter HR, service delivery and support to being that holistic executive. I think that is such a great way to think about it. You know, service delivery is, is absolutely what we thought. Check the box. Deliver this program. Make sure you’re compliant, do the policies right to move into that player, coach role, that bigger responsibility of looking at holistically what the organization needs? Instead of being one cog in a wheel.
Kathi Enderes 33:02
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And so how do you get that? Let me jump a little bit ahead to through some of these slides, because I think I want to kind of get to some of the insights that we got, how you got that too. But here’s just what we found out about who the CHROs are. This is, again, based on 20,000 CHRO profiles that we analyze. So it’s a lot of profiles about who they are, like most of them are female, which is maybe not surprising, right? 69% are women. Most of them are pretty mature in their career. So the biggest age group is the group from 50 to 59, the average age is 50. So we’ll unpack what we mean by that in a minute. Very highly educated. So lots of them have Master’s or Doctoral degrees, and almost everybody, I think, 98%, have a bachelor’s degree. So very highly educated. International experience very important, not very easy to come by in the US, but in other geographies, it’s very common to have international experience. So experience from other countries than your home country, basically, or the country where you’re working doesn’t mean experience outside of the US, of course, necessarily, if you’re not US based. So I’m always saying that so very important consideration as well, because it gets you this cultural competence non HR business experience. So outside of HR business experience, only one in four have that’s low overall. So it’s not it’s not very high. It’s not very high. And if you think about each other being the business, you want to have some other business experience as well. And the most frequent kind of domain expertise is talent management. So 41% have talent management experience. Certainly, many of them have HR business partner. Each kind of, that kind of experience, well, broader experience as well, from but from a domain expertise. That’s what we see here. And we can, like, dive deeper on which ones, the high performing ones, have as well. But maybe we want to talk about, what’s the paths? What are the paths to the CH world? By the way, you can download this report as well, so you see the link here on our site. We made this publicly available. It’s chock full of all of these insights and discussions here. Yeah, this is just a little teaser, right? Just a little snippet of the information that’s in there. Exactly. It’s just a little teaser. So let me talk about how do, how do you get to be a chro, because I know this is really important for many of you might be listening in, and you might be maybe on your path to CHRO, you want to become a theater or want to understand what their CHRO path could look like. So we categorize the CHRO role and the path to it into four different tracks. So the first one is what we call it career future role. The career future role is a person that moves from company to company in higher and higher kind of roles, basically within the HR profession, in order to make it eventually to the to the future role. Role. So it could be that you start basically in maybe one of the remains. Maybe you start in talent management, for example, as we see here. Then maybe you get go to another company, you get to a higher level HR business partner role. Then maybe you go to another company, and you get to an even higher level, maybe another functional role. And then eventually you’ll get to maybe lead a major business unit in terms of the HR area. And then they eventually be the CHRO. And then you move around to maybe bigger companies in order to basically stay in a chro role. And I will tell you, and you saw this before three and four, four CHROs actually got to it like that, so very common that you have to move it within, from company to company, which helps you build kind of this cross company competence and experience, but it also leaves behind the relationships that you built, for example, in one organization, and the business knowledge that you build on, how does this company actually make money? How does it operate? How does the business actually work as well. So that’s a little bit of the drawbacks on that. Second one is what we call the company CHRO, much less frequent. So company CHROs are those CHROs that stay within one company and work their way up basically within the company, within the HR function. And finally they get to the CHRO role. Has some really high profile CHROs that operating like that. We have a great podcast, for example, on one of the CHROs that you saw quoted here as well on a Christian van der Tang from Tom Tom. He has worked all of his career, basically at Tom Tom, and he moved up in this in the HR organization, until he got to be the huge role. Other Other, some others like that too, but much less frequent, so much less frequent to actually move that. So if you want to be a huge role, most of the time, you have to move, leave your company and go somewhere else. So this internally focused kind of view and the experience that you have within the business is often sometimes not valued as much as it should be. And then we have two that are actually outside of HRO, the HR function that get. We call that the business CHRO, which is somebody who might come from marketing on sales, like Lauren Schuster, for example, that I mentioned before, from the LEGO Group, who comes from a marketing background, and he worked in Google and marketing, and then he came to Lego to lead, kind of some of their marketing and business environment. And then he was asked to take on the HR function. Sometimes that also happens because people complain, and we were working with a very large tech company, and the European leader there said, I talked with him and asked him, How did he get to be the CEO here? And he said, Well, I was always complaining about each other, and then so the CEO asked me to fix it. And so he said, you fix it. Now. Are you always complaining about it? And sometimes that’s great, because it gets you kind of this outside, outside of HR business experience. But then oftentimes these CHROs, they come in and they think it’s pretty easy and straightforward, and then they come in and they say, oh my god, it’s so complicated. I had no idea. So that’s like when you have to support them with a good team, with a strong team that has this HR background in order to amplify and support them on that. And the last one that we also talked about is what we call the operation theater role. So that’s somebody also coming from an on HR business side. They might come from operations, for example, they might come from administration. That come might come might come from maybe legal compliance. We call that the operations theater, yeah, so that you see some of those people too. And sometimes that’s a great move if you have kind of operational issues that the HR function has, or if you need kind of legal expertise, sometimes that happens too much less frequent, of course, as well.
Rebecca Warren 40:22
I’ve worked for two folks who have come from the legal organization and and moved into the CHRO role. One really good. One, not so great. It was just a very limiting perspective. And, you know, looking at it from a risk perspective, very different.
Kathi Enderes 40:38
It’s really different and it really depends also on the orientation of the person as well. So if they can take kind of this broader perspective as well, and and also, I think, how much are they willing to learn about what HR is really about? I think that’s really key for those to allow school, the business theater role and the operations theater role. So as like as we’re looking into how many are there in in terms of each of them, I already talked about on the left-hand side, you see the CHROs in all organizations that we studied. So career CHRO is the most common one that you have about 17% of company CHROs and about 8% of business, huge roles and 2% of operation. Sears rose kind of as as I had expected to so vast majority. You move around between, between these companies. And if you look at the high performers, those that are most systemic, the most high performing HR organizations that elite, it’s about the same percentage of the career theater roles, but business theater roles are actually a lot more percentage wise. So what that means is that lots of times the people that come from the business side probably have the best kind of setup in terms of support from the CEO and some relationships with other C suite executives, and also support from their team, in order to amplify and support them on the HR practice. And then they can move kind of the business forward with their HR with their HR organization, so a little bit more that that they are most, most successful. And I think what that means also, if you’re in HR right now and you’re trying to move into into a chro role internally, build those executive relationships. Every opportunity that you can get to work with anybody on the C suite or on their direct reports teams, any interaction with them, build those relationships, because they are going to help you grow and amplify also your performances, your role.
Rebecca Warren 42:48
That’s that’s a little bit of what we’re seeing here.
Kathi Enderes 42:50
I know we’re always looking at about how many are kind of female and how many are like? What does it look like from from a diversity perspective. So from a from a like, how many percent of them are female versus male? We already saw that 68% of all CHROs, or 69% actually of all CHROs female. But as you look into, for example, the career CHROs, there’s even more higher percentage of females. So 78% of them are female. What it means is, if you’re a woman and you want to be become a chro, you have to move around even more so within, like across organizations like it or not, it just seems that men have a better chance to be promoted from within, and I think it has to do with their relationships that they are supported on establishing within the organization, so they’re seen more as a candidate for the CHRO role as well. Fair, fair. So I’m watching the time.
Rebecca Warren 43:56
Kathi, we’ve got about 10 minutes left. What do we want to make sure we focus on in these last 10 minutes to make sure we get and we can just talk really, really fast. But I don’t know if there’s other things that we want to make sure to cover, to give folks some ideas on what their journey can look like.
Kathi Enderes 44:14
I’d love to actually focus on, kind of getting our next poll out, and then also talking about maybe, kind of what, giving them a really specific, specific kind of tool and support system on what you can do, tactically speaking, and also address your questions. So if you have any questions please or comments, please, let us know in the chat. So yeah, maybe, maybe we’ll move to the move to the to the to the next poll. And as we’re actually talking about, and we talked a lot about how CHROs have to have a more kind of database, fact based analytical approach, we see a certain, certain things that, for example, the high level of degrees that we talked about, we saw that educational pathways actually, there’s not one clear educational pathway, so most CHROs actually don’t have an HR degree, only 50% or 15% not 50 15% of CHROs have An HR degree, and that’s degrees like political science or accounting, of finance, economics, legal, psychology, sociology, for example, that actually make almost a bigger impact, sometimes than than the HR degree. So from these degree perspectives, really interesting insights, as as we think about like, what functional areas of HR we see here is talent acquisition is the most successful, the most correlated to high performance, which I found very interesting. But if you think about talent, acquisition is a very can be a very strategic inside, out, outside in kind of function, if you think about it right, very connected to other disciplines as well and to the business as well. Can be very business focused. So talent acquisition experience really key on on like being a high performance CHRO outside HR, outside of HR, business experience, consulting, very, very highly correlated with high performance, which might make sense, because the CHRO in systemic HR is kind of this consultant, this business consultant, but it also very highly correlated, because I think, and it goes to back to the point that I mentioned earlier, need to understand technology now you Can technology, not for me, and we have a great actually question here, how many years on average does it take to advance to a future role position? Well, you saw the average age of Coronavirus is 50, so on average, it takes about many of this year, most of the Coronavirus. Actually, maybe I’ll go to that slide too, if I can, it’s kind of hard to move through. Maybe we go to the poll and work on that one.
Rebecca Warren 47:05
What is it? 25 to 30 years is kind of, yeah, exactly.
47:08
Kathi Enderes 47:10
We have very limited, like only, and I can look at that only 11% are under 40. So most of them take at least like 20 years, 2030, 2028, years, on average, to to get to a future role position. So it takes, it takes a lot of time because it’s such a complex role, and it may shorten, we don’t know, with how quickly things are moving, maybe everything kind of gets condensed, and as the role continues to change as well.
Rebecca Warren 47:32
So let’s look at this poll question, and then we’ll talk about how you may be able to get into that next step yourself. So how are you currently prioritizing your own upskilling and learning to grow your own HR career? Do you have a personal development plan pursuing learning opportunities? I know a lot of people. I have one a board of directors right our own, surround ourselves with people who help us to continue to think differently. I occasionally take courses or at attend events, but don’t have a formal plan. Rely mostly on the on the job experience to build new skills. My org provides structured learning, and I follow that, or I just really don’t have time, or other reasons that I’m not prioritizing my own upskilling. So we’d love to hear how you fall into that. Kathi, where do you think folks are going to land? What do you think is going to come up as the top one?
Kathi Enderes 48:32
I would say it’s probably they rely mostly on the job experience to build new skills, because, because of the because of the constraints. And, I mean, it’s so busy and so many things are happening. And honestly, you can learn a lot of things on the job as well, but you need to be intentional on that too. So how can you learn on the job without being because if you’re not intentional about it, you’re just going to do whatever you have done before, right? And you might correct a lot of new things. What do we have? Let’s flip to our responses. Hopefully folks have had a chance to weigh in.
Rebecca Warren 49:07
Okay, occasionally take Okay, okay, well, that’s interesting. Yes, yeah, okay. First is that everybody has some kind of, for the most part, some kind of development journey, whether it’s organic or whether it is planned, folks are continuing to learn and to grow, and I would say, just as my two cents, and if you’re not, if you’re not figuring out some way to learn something new every day, that may be a mistake, because the world is changing, as we saw in the beginning. The world is changing so fast, you’ve got to make sure that you’re continuing to feed your brain, give yourself new things to think about, and making sure that you’re continuing to expand how you think about things.
Kathi Enderes 49:52
So, yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, I think it’s very telling that actually nobody says my organization provides structured learning, and I follow that, which makes me sad, but yeah, it’s consistent what we saw in our systemic HR study, where we saw that only 8% of organizations actually provide structured learning for HR professionals specifically. So if you’re not, it is also consistent with many of these CHROs being career CHROs. Because if you don’t plan for the succession of your CHRO within your organization, guess what? You’re not going to find them. You can’t have a fake if you don’t have a place exactly what do we want to flip?
Rebecca Warren 50:34
Okay, let’s go to like the two.
Kathi Enderes 50:37
I want to give you a tool of what you can do, actually, yourself in in with, like a tool, basically, for your own career. But it’s, unfortunately, it’s kind of stuck Tony. I can’t move it. It’s spinning.
Rebecca Warren 50:57
Here you need to do is, I think we need to plan an entire day workshop. We have so much content, so many things we haven’t talked about. So you get with yours and see how we can plan just a, you know, a longer time to get questions and discussions and cover even half of the material that we had today.
Kathi Enderes 51:18
Absolutely. Well, okay, now it’s actually moving very slowly, so I hope I can go there, what I’m going to show you and what I want to really show you the slide and give you the link for this too, is what we call the HTA career navigator, which is a tool that we developed, and it’s a free tool that we developed on the George person company, together with with eight fold that is amazing for you, so you can basically go in. You upload your resume. You upload basically tell the system what you want to do, where you want to go if you want to be a chro. And then it gives you suggestions based on your resume. It tells you, basically it infers for you, where, where you are in each of these HR capabilities that are talked about, like these 96 capabilities. And it also gives you connect like suggestions, basically on where you might want to go as as as an HR professional. So it gives you kind of next steps, areas where you could go. You can tune that as well. And yeah, we’re gonna, oh, here it’s already Sue, already put it in which is, Thank you, Sue. I’m moving slowly. Here it is. Here it is. It took a long time, but here’s the link. And here’s also to scan data career navigator. And it’s amazing because you can actually see next steps. Basically, it’s going to give you all this whole career ladder, and then it also gives you a suggestion on who, what mentors you might want to connect to in this platform. And there’s 1000s of people already in the CHROs, high level leaders, but then also people earlier in their career, and you can reach out to them and connect with them. Many of them are happy to mentor you and give you feedback on on what this means, and it also gives you connection to basically courses and programs and all of that. So it’s just a really personalized tool to help you with your own career. Yeah, so it suggests, doesn’t matters are so critical for that?
Rebecca Warren 53:20
So, in my TA career, I was in TA for a long time, as Tony shared when we first started, and I’ve worked with a lot of different CHROs. And I would love to just tell you two quick stories about CHROs that have really been impactful for me and what to look for in those folks. So I went to a company, third largest dome shopping network in the in the country. Oh, Kathi. They were a hot mess, a hot mess, but I wanted to work for the CHRO. I wanted to work for Jamie, so I decided to come into the organization to work for her. She was fair. She gave me great advice on how to do things. She never jumped in and did them for me. We were a really small, lean team. I said I wanted to take on this new project. And she said, I don’t have the bandwidth. I’m like, great. Can I do it? She said, Absolutely. We spent a lot of time working together. It was something I only had tangentially worked on in the past, right, doing a competency project for the entire organization, so that I could then tie it to interview guides and make sure we were bringing in the right people. She was awesome. And so I so appreciated the ability to work with someone who said, Yes, I trust you do this. Come to me with help. She’s amazing. She is now the Chief People Officer for Trimble. She’s fantastic. And another CHRO that is still my mentor to this day is MK, who I work for at PF Changs. He, from the start, knew that he had he made sure I knew that he had my back when I accepted the offer, he said, thanks for taking the leap with me. I’m going to do everything in my power to make you successful. He was very transparent. We’ve had situations where somebody came and complained about me, and he’s like, Well, go talk to her. And then gave me the opportunity to say, hey, what do you want to do? What does your plan look like? Come back with a plan. He’s like, I love it. That’s why you’re in charge. That’s why we do this. So support and transparency and trust from these two leaders have stuck with me, from, you know, my whole entire career on working with leaders who really have your back. Trust and transparency is huge. So find someone, find mentors, find folks that can pour into you, give you that support and confidence, but also allow you to do your own thing. You know, learn fast, fail fast as well. So just a few seconds left. Kathi, what do we want to wrap up with on the career navigator slide? Anything else we need to share before we for Tony yanks us off of the stage?
Kathi Enderes 55:54
Yeah, no, I think this was, this was so fun. Rebecca, so thank you. Thanks for the great conversation. So much more to unpack, of course, but check out the career navigator. And I think for the really, whether you want to be a chro, an HR leader, or maybe you’re looking at other careers, really be clear about where you want to go, decide where you want to go, and take every minute of the day to learn. Basically, I think you said it really well, Rebecca, to to constantly learn and develop learn on the job, learn about learn with free resources, all of those kind of things add up the questions and dive in. Be curious, right to the very last second, we’re going to flip it back to you. Thanks everyone. Thank you, Rebecca. Thank you.
